Rambling Rhodes

Dan Rather: I could do a broadcast segment devoted to underage obesity.

I thought that was a nice touch. :)

Focusing on the memos is not allowing you to see the larger picture that Bush really didn't complete his service. I haven't examined the memos, don't need to since I wouldn't be able to tell one way or the other.

But I have been reading alot and I read this today, Why Bush Left Texas and it pretty well damns Bush for his shifting stories, the holes in his record and more facts. Now, I can't even pretend to have a full handle on the entire situation but trying to obfuscate the issue by focusing on the memos is kind of weak. Real or not, the facts are leaning very, very heavily towards Bush not completing his duty.

So, let me get this straight: the memos may be fake, but the point they make is probably true?

Great. Wonderful. Terrific precedent being set for the mainstream media. So long as something is largely understood to be true, it's okay to run with stories that are backed up by fake documents. Jeebus fuck.

Ryan, at the risk of sounding like Joshua, don't be a dick. You know that's not what I meant. Forget all about the memos, they don't exist (and yes, they may have never existed) and you're still left with the pretty irrefutable evidence that Bush didn't complete his service. Combine that with the GOP positioning Bush as a war president and that Kerry, who did serve, as a limp wristed pansy who would use spitballs to defend the nation.

I don't know why CBS ran the stories but they're smart enough to know that fakes would be caught and they'd get smacked around very, very hard for it. They're not stupid (well, pursuit of ratings at the expense of objectivism and all that aside).

I didn't need the memos to figure out that Bush didn't complete his duty. I didn't need the memos to know that Bush had strings pulled to get him the National Guard gig. I didn't need the memos to know alot about the character of the man who's president now. The memos certainly wouldn't have helped him but the fact or misfact of their truth is more or less irrelevant in the larger picture given the evidence of Bush's failure to complete his service.

But the real issue to me isn't about Bush going AWOL or whatever. Its that the media won't let this bullshit go. No one gives a damn anymore. Let's get up to speed and put each candidate's current platform under scrutiny instead of living in the past.

Sorry, Johnny. I guess I'm not viewing this the same way you are. I'm looking at this from a journalism point of view, and how egregious this error really is. This is no minor league media screw up. Forget Bush and Kerry on this. Just as a matter of journalistic credibility, this stinks to high-freakin' heaven. They weren't just fake documents. . . they were so incredibly fake as to be laughable, and yet CBS ran with them. From a journalism stance, this is just astounding. If extremely obvious fake documents can be held up as proof, imagine what a little time and effort could produce. What documents can be trusted in the future? Any? This is some troubling shit, even without the politics.

Oh no, I understand and agree with you in principle. Rushing to press with false evidence is a serious transgression and CBS and Dan Rather need to be held accountable for it if its shown that they willfully aired false information.

The thing is, you're damning the memos without ever having seen them in person. You admit that its possible that they could be real but then deny that its conceivable.

I'm looking at it from the other end. What could CBS have hoped to gain by forging documents showing that Bush shirked his duty? Where did the docs come from? Did whoever gave them to CBS do so in the full knowledge that they were fakes and wanted to get them caught and looking like fools? I've thougth about the possibility that its a GOP tactic to further shadow reality. It may not be, we may never know.

But the reality is that Bush slipped through his service, at best. At worst, he's AWOL and deserves to be treated like a deserter (and during wartime aren't deserters shot? oh wait, Vietnam was a police action, never a war, lucky bastard!).

I do get your point and it bothers me that CBS would not complete their investigation into the legitimacy of the docs before airing them. They look like fools but really, when was the last time you watched CBS News and learned something new? I don't get my news from any of those news outlets anymore, why would I, its all skewed and biased and useless.

Anything I need to know about is talked about on The Daily Show. And yes, I'm just kidding.

I love the Daily Show, but do you get the feeling they're becoming more partisan? What made them stand out before was that they could poke fun at both sides mercilessly, but I'm not seeing that as much now.

As for the CBS thing, they were supposed to issue a statement at noon today, but nothing came about. I wonder what's going on over there? This may be bigger than just a case of using forged documents. Maybe we'll find out who passed them on to CBS? Stay tuned, I guess. But, just like the whole Plain Layne thing, I'll bet we'll be disappointed by the finale.

The who finale? Who is this Layne person you speak of? It vaguely rings a bell but I'm drawing a blank beyond that.

And you are right, this may be more about internal issues at CBS than forged memos.

By the way, came across Daily KOS: I'm an Expert., and I Say They're Not Forged.

Thought you might like some counterpoint. He also makes some pretty good arguments for the validity of the memos.

Yeah, I've seen his stuff, as well as surfing all sorts of other sites trying to validate them, and they all basically say the same thing, relying on an outlandish set of possible scenarios. Even Killian's secretary, an 86 year old woman who hates Bush, says that she didn't write them, that they're probably fake, and that Killian's office at the time didn't have the very specific typewriting hardware on site that could produce the documents.

Gah, and now CBS is saying that the documents are "accurate." Not real or genuine, but fucking "accurate." This shit is just fucking pissing me off.