November 07, 2006

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With apologies to The Koolaid Report for tromping on their hallowed fisking ground.

Today's Strib moron letter to the editor:


Too many shots

Tell me about it. Last weekend's bender was, like, a brain cell killer of the highest order and. . . oh, wait, you're not talking about THOSE kinds of shots.

I knew something sounded familiar when I read that Minneapolis fired their weapons 43 times in response to Wayne Reyes exiting his vehicle armed with a shotgun (Star Tribune, Nov. 1).

Okay, he didn't exit the vehicle armed with a wallet, or a white dove, or a multi-function dildo; he exited his vehicle with a SHOTGUN. Now, if I happen to be armed with a GLOCK when some motherfucker comes out of a vehicle weilding a shotgun, it's shoot first, ask questions later. What's more, I'm going to fire every round in my GLOCK's magazine. I'm not going to fire once and ask Mr. Shotgun whether I hit center mass.

Even though Reyes was armed, were 43 bullets from six police weapons justified?

Now, I'm just spitballing here, but if the police in question were armed with a Glock 17, which is the pistol of choice for a couple of my law enforcement friends, we're talking a magazine capacity of 17 cartridge rounds per weapon. So, there's a combined Swiss cheese potential of 6 x 17 = 102. In other words, those police used half the restraint I would have had I been in their position. Good job, guys! *SALUTE*

I am as concerned about the Minneapolis Police Department as I am about violent crime in Minneapolis.

Oh, well then, you're a fucking moron.

Is this the kind of policing that Minneapolis needs?

Yes, if you're crazy enough to exit a vehicle with a shotgun when surrounded by six law enforcement officers. Perhaps they should have held their fire and asked Mr. Shotgun whether his father abused him as a child and then offerred Mr. Shotgun a Tootsie Pop and a hug?

I don't think so. I am interested to see how new Minneapolis Police Chief Tim Dolan will handle this tragic incident.

Personally, I hope he hands out more bullets


I'm Ryan Rhodes, and I approve this ThunderJournal post.

Paid for by the "Last Minute Write-In Campaign For Ryan Rhodes Committee."

Posted by Ryan at November 7, 2006 09:46 AM | TrackBack

"Okay, he didn't exit the vehicle armed with a wallet, or a white dove, or a multi-function dildo; "

And with that, your invitation to join the KAR pantheon of ThunderJournalists will be e-mailed to you today.

Posted by: LearnedFoot at November 7, 2006 10:50 AM

That and its just really fun to empty a magazine at top speed. I have a pal in Wisconsin with a pre-ban Glock and damned if that sucker isn't stupid-ass grin inducing.

Also, some of the Glocks have a 19 round capacity. My poor little pistol only holds six rounds but that should be more than plenty in damned near every instance I could imagine needing it.

Posted by: Johnny at November 7, 2006 11:10 AM

And you'd empty all six rounds if a fucker pulled a shotgun on you, wouldn't you, while wishing you had a few more to fire?

Posted by: Ryan at November 7, 2006 11:26 AM

I basically think this sort of thing is a side effect of using FMJ 9mm (or .40 S&W) ammo. People don't fall down when you shoot them with that sort of thing, so you don't know they're down.

I know cops like to have the magazine capacity, but for my money an FMJ .45 ACP is the way to go because it knocks people down, which is what cops tend to need/want to do when they shoot people. The odds of getting into a firefight where you're going to need 3X17 rounds are very very low and, under most circumstances, you'll be able to use the AR-15 that many police departments are issuing their patrol officers these days. Otherwise, you want a bullet that knocks people down, and the .45 ACP was invented for that.

Posted by: Joshua at November 7, 2006 03:16 PM

Exactly, Joshua... Why just puncture someone's heart when you can knock it out their back through a hole the size of a basketball?

Like they say in South Minneapolis, "38s and 9s just make a brotha pissed."

Well... THEY don't say "brotha," but I do.

43 shots, no word on how many hits, but only 2 were fatal?

I'm more worried about the Minneapolis Police Dept's FIREARMS PROFICIENCY.

Posted by: Rob@L&R at November 7, 2006 03:32 PM

Actually, Joshua, my 40 has some pretty good knockdown and stay down power, with the right bullets, of course. Yes, the 45 reigns (unless you're packing a 50 Desert Eagle) but the shorty forty is no joke. But then, if the target is hopped up on PCP or something similar, then yeah, I'd want big bullets too.

But the issue of how many hits versus how many bullets fired is an important one. I remember reading somewhere about the average cop being an atrociously bad shot. And it doesn't matter how big the bullet is or how much energy its carrying if you miss (unless you're using a nuke and then all this is moot).

Posted by: Johnny at November 7, 2006 05:35 PM

Overkill would have been all six cops firing forty some rounds each.
It does surprise me though that they didn't hit each other, that shows some good spacing.
And again, dumb ass bails out of his vehicle with a gun, and a long gun at that and doesn't expect to get his self blowed up? Well duh, a gun rack.

Posted by: donna at November 7, 2006 10:05 PM

Johnny: A .40 is a perfectly good gun if you're allowed to use hollow-points-- the same is true for a 9mm. The 9mm and the .40 have almost exactly the same muzzle energy as a .45 ACP. It's just a question of dumping that muzzle energy into the target.

With FMJ ammo, the .40 and the 9mm both have a tendency to overpenetrate. A .45 ACP with FMJ ammo is a much heavier bullet that goes a lot slower and is much less likely to overpenetrate. That means the projectile's energy all gets transfered to the target, rather than just handing some energy off to the target on its way to the wall behind the target.

Obviously hollow-point (or, better yet, Black Talon (and arguably Glaser or MagSafe, though those are more controversial rounds)) ammo improves the stopping power of higher-velocity rounds like the 9mm and the .40, but no police department I'm aware of allows their officers to use expanding ammunition.

So if we're talking FMJ, I stand by my original recommendation. Nothing against your .40. I'm sure it's a sweet gun with good stopping power, since you have the option of your choice of ammo. But for cops I say it's .45 (and practice) all the way.

Posted by: Joshua at November 8, 2006 03:19 PM

Joshua, agreed! And I'm glad the cops can't use hollow points. But I do think they should have to do alot more target practice.

Posted by: Johnny at November 9, 2006 01:58 PM

Cops in Minnesota use hollow points, just not the real nasty expanding ammo. At least not yet.

Posted by: Ryan at November 10, 2006 11:30 PM
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