Rambling Rhodes

Josh points out that several of the points suggested by Ryan's post are predicated on faulty reasoning (viz "George Bush causes weather" Well, no, but he did shit all over Kyoto on the grounds that it was bad for business which, given the financial impact of what just happened in New Orleans, suggests both piss-poor risk assessment and, possibly, a touch of "boy my asshole sure his chapped from being a lifelong bitch of the energy lobby" syndrome).

Ryan demurs by claiming that the whole thing was meant to be a humor piece and that Josh is just running with the latest political football. Possible "you're putting words in my mouth" accusation.

Josh accuses Ryan of prevaricating.

Ryan says something like, "Fine then," and proceeds to list a bunch of times Bill Clinton or some other Dem hack did something "just like this."

Josh points out that Ryan has, once again, fallen back to arguing moral equivalency rather than addressing any of Josh's points.

Eventually everyone gets bored. Ryan makes his stock, "this comment string soon to be released in paperback" joke and the comment string dies.

Ryan pre-empts further discussion by pointing out that, sometimes, Joshua is just spoiling for debate.

Joshua responds that he just likes to occasionally remind Ryan that someone does, in fact, notice when he's shovelling propaganda.

Oh, for crying out loud, Joshua. The post was obviously meant to take a shot at the self-important, often clueless, overestimating media talking heads. *hint, hint* Zap Laser. *hint, hint* Propaganda my ass.

Jebus fucking crow.

Propaganda my ass.

That does seem to be where most of it comes from.

*golf clap for Joshua's wittiness*

Seriously though. Is a blog REALLY propaganda? And if it is, isn't yours' just an emporium of propaganda in its own right?

Doug butts in by noticing that Josh seems to think passing Kyoto would have somehow prevented Hurricane Katrina and therefore been cost effective. Which is ignorant on lots of levels at once, even if Josh believes in human causation for global warming and in the best case scenarios for Kyoto's likely environmental impact. Plus ironic for someone upset about "shoveling propaganda."

Ryan, what an amusing thing you've written. I'm a Houstonian suffering shell shock from the hours upon hours of recent media vomit about Rita.

Not long ago, I declared my disgust with the national media by ridding myself of cable TV. I posted about it on my blog. Next, I attached rabbit ears to my big screen TV, and have since used it only to view PBS, the morning traffic reports, and the evening weather. Admittedly, it looks a bit silly to have a big screen TV with rabbit ears.

Now, I'm going to make another change in my limited TV viewing habits. Originally, I had made exceptions for Houston's local TV talent by exempting them from the disdain I felt for their national media counterparts, but that's no longer true. Over the last 48 hours, I have been bombarded by hours upon hours of ridiculous media dialogue and theatrics about hurricane Rita. So, now I'm getting rid of my rabbit ears and donating the TV to charity. Henceforth, I'll get my news from the "net" and Ham radio operators. Maybe I'll consult an astrologist .

Possibly, our local nice guys were so, so, so ridiculous because one of the CBNA legends had flown into town and was sitting next to them during the morning part of their around the clock vomit stream. I guess he blinded them with his integrity. Feel free to chortle on that one. I should be more understanding, because everybody wants to do good in their job and impress the big guys. But, I'm not going to cave on this one. I'm tired of media distortion and theatrics.

While I only have one vote in one place at a time, I am voting against our sanctified media -- local and national -- and getting rid of the TV entirely.

Keep up the great writing.

Doug butts in by noticing that Josh seems to think passing Kyoto would have somehow prevented Hurricane Katrina and therefore been cost effective.

Yeah, Josh does seem to think that-- if you're an idiot. If you're an idiot, Josh can seem to think all kinds of things and you can have the pleasure of arguing with him about shit he didn't say and winning because he doesn't argue with you back.

Bush's argument for why the US should bow out of the Kyoto Protocol basically boiled down to his perception that it was bad for business, and that business should be left to regulate itself. My point is that the aftermath of Katrina demonstrates A) that the financial and human impact of not dealing with global climate change appears to be far worse for business than any of the measures advanced in the Kyoto accords and that B) any suggestion that business will self-regulate to control global climate change before disaster strikes is now demonstrably incorrect. My point as regards Ryan's initial post is that lots of idiots (just like you!) prefer to hear the above points as "Liberals and the media think Bush is responsible for the weather." Which would be nice if it were true, because it's obviously bullshit-- so if you're a Bush supporter there's not much of an argument there. You win before the argument's even started! But that's not what I said and if I'm a little brusque about saying so it's because poor reading comprehension seems to be the favourite weapon in every internet hack's arsenal of debating tactics. It's fucking boring and I'm sick of it.

As far as the question of whether or not I "believe" in human causation for global climate change-- I'm not going to argue the science of this in Ryan's comment section. Even obvious things can be argued indefinitely on the internet. Like the American moon landings-- did they really happen, or were they staged? Of course they really happened, but if I wanted to waste time debating the point with you-- particularly given your demonstrated capacity for misreading arguments --it could take weeks and still never come to a solid conclusion.

And finally, to the question of my being "upset about propaganda," what're you talking about? I didn't tell Ryan not to propagandize. I just took a shot at him for being clumsy about it. But hey, if I "seem" to be critical of propaganda for its own sake then that would make me a hypocrite, which is one of those sins like racism or sexism that means I automatically lose the argument, regardless of other factors. Which is boring fucking trick number two in every internet hack's arsenal of debating tactics.

In sum, don't waste my fucking time pitching underhand.

Seriously though. Is a blog REALLY propaganda? And if it is, isn't yours' just an emporium of propaganda in its own right?

Yes and yes. And I've said so before. Kind of often.

Josh,

Interesting way of saying, "Gosh I guess I could have worded my point better." But thanks for the clarification. Also for the interesting, if desperately defensive, insultery.

Doesn't make you any more right though. The Senate voted 97-0 against Kyoto when Clinton was in office. But it's more fun to blame Booooosh! so I get where you're coming from.

Exactly one nation which ratified Kyoto has managed to hit its reduction targets. I prefer plans that are actually followed to those that are little more than bitching points. India and China were exempted from Kyoto entirely, which makes no sense at all if carbon emissions are as serious a matter as Kyoto claims.

Yet you suggest Bush just tossed up his hands and took no action as an alternative to Kyoto. Not true. The Bush administration successfully brought bout the Asia Pacific Partnership on Clean Development and Climate.

Advantages over Kyoto?

Well China and India both signed on (as well as the United States, Japan, South Korea, and Australia). And why shouldn't they? The plan focuses on developing and sharing new technology with the goal of reducing carbon emmisions to a greater extent than Kyoto promised as a best case scenario. It's business friendly, and self-enforcing. It's also actually being implemented by nations accounting for more than half the world's economy and more than half its carbon emmissions.

By the way, you SEEM to be more than a little touchy when your hot-headed shots at other people are challenged. Doesn't speak well of your self-confidence. But I wish you peace, love, and comfy teddy bears to cuddle with all the same.

Doug:

Interesting way of saying, "Gosh I guess I could have worded my point better."

Except that's not what I said. My initial point was perfectly clear. I just had to repeat it to draw your attention to it because you were all set to argue about some other point I never made. I wish I could call anything about your approach "interesting", but it's a pretty common tactic.

The Senate voted 97-0 against Kyoto when Clinton was in office. But it's more fun to blame Booooosh!

Yawn.

I'll have to skip the technical stuff for now. I've only got 4 minutes left on this connection and I'm not going to shell out another dollar just so I can argue with you.

By the way, you SEEM to be more than a little touchy when your hot-headed shots at other people are challenged. Doesn't speak well of your self-confidence. But I wish you peace, love, and comfy teddy bears to cuddle with all the same.

Yeah Doug, because self-confidence is important in a debate about climate change.

And I was pretty clear about why I was "touchy". Less to do with "you challenged me" and more to do with "you're debating arguments I didn't make, and I find that profoundly annoying." But that's okay. Keep hacking away at that straw man. He'll cry uncle eventually.

The Senate voted 97-0 against Kyoto when Clinton was in office. But it's more fun to blame Booooosh!

Yawn.

I'm curious, Joshua, why this gets such passing treatment, connection fees notwithstanding.

I should also note, having met Doug personally, and having read his blog for some time, "idiot" is not a label I'd be able to stick on him. I couldn't stick the idiot label on you, either, Josh, but I'm just sayin'.

As a Houstonian, all I can say is that I am tired of hurricanes & their neverending news coverage. I was planning on heading to Austin, but after hearing that this 3 1/2 hour trip was taking 20+ hours, I changed plans. I "evacuated" to my parents house. This normally 30 minute drive took 4 1/2 hours using only backroads and not touching a freeway. We had 4 days of nonstop Rita coverage on the local stations.
The lack of gas was pretty scary. So many families stranded on the freeways in 97+ degree weather and no one was moving. People were turning off their cars and getting out to walk their pets or stretch their legs. You would pass gas station after station & all were empty.

I was wondering how you weathered the storm, Mandy. Glad to hear you're okay, and thanks for checking in! *pinches cheeks*